Jan 9, 2018
Today’s show was inspired from Maria, who asked the following: “I wanted to ask your opinion on [NAME REDACTED] travel writer's program. As a travel writer, do you think this program is a good investment?”
Without any personal experience with the travel program in question, we decided to reinterpret her question as: “Should I pay good money to take travel-writing specific online course that promises to make me a travel writer rich beyond my wildest dreams?”
In a word: No.
In more than one word -- an entire podcast episode, in fact -- we’ll break down the cash-flow realities of being a for-profit travel writer/travel influencer. We’re sharing *all* the times we got paid to create travel content over the last three years, so you can decide if this is the life for you or not. (Granted, you’re only getting our perspective.)
Here’s what we’re talking about:
Not that we have anything against being better writers, or paying money to hone your craft as a writer. But we’re skeptical of any get-rich-quick schemes. But YMMV.
Got a question for us? Leave us a quick voicemail. And if you want these episodes early and gain access to all of our bonus content, support us on Patreon.
Computers are getting much better at listening to human speech and turning it into scannable text. At least that's the theory. It's not working all the well for us. But we're still using PodcasterPro's free service if only for the comedy value.
00:00:00
I assume they listen to the show what they should have known,
the kind of content we produce, and the Czech cleared even been
done done. It has good. Oh, that's one time. This one is spend one
time this, No, what this morning? This one time. Oh my God, Just
one time. Are you my loved had been email cooking? Shoot. He
actually was a very long questions rather than the entire thing.
I'm going to summarize it. This comes in from Maria, and she
basically said in a lot of words, I want to be at travel writer.
Should I pay good money to take this online course their promises
to teach me to be a travel writer. Thank you. Bye Riga. You are
great at summarizing. Thanks, maybe. Thanks for asking Maria. I'm
Sheila D and I am Ibo Tara. You are listening to this one time. We
are Chievo. I think I got that backwards, but nonetheless, the.
Idea is out there. So let me Marie is question was two-fold. The
biggest one was kitschy become a travel writer and be should she
take this shouldn't sign up for this chorused a teacher had to be a
travel writer. Can you answer the second part of that one First for
me, honey? Should she sign up to take this course learn how to be a
travel writer? I'd say now I say Hell no, rudder way. I I say just
jump in If you're going to that, But I will get some some
information about that.
00:01:42
Regarding like funds and things like that, it's a it's a hard
life as a travelled blogger. Yeah, aged Rich, a heart trouble. But
before we go down that road back to the original question, would
you suggest someone pay money to take a course to teach them how to
be a travel writer? No, but I don't think it's a bad idea to take a
writing course. Um, I think everybody can hung up on their they're
writing skill Wells. Yes, But However, it makes sense to sign up to
become It makes sense to become a better writer. And if you need to
take a horse to become a better writer than take a course to become
a better writer. But if you think that there is someone out there
or if some agency has created a long form email, that makes it seem
like All you have to do is take this course and travel magazines,
travel, blogs and other travel publications are just waiting for
you to send them information and then riches will flow from there
yet. It's ruining is not not going to happen. So this. Oh no. Does
does what it gets that company rich not exactly want. That's
exactly what does that's designed to make them rich, not make you
Rich, bring a travel writer. Now, back to question a getting rich
being a travel writer. <laughter> you're that That's good for
about. I don't know. Five people I can think of. Yeah, maybe fifty
in total. I mean, it's like anything in live. It's the upper
echelon. The top point one percentage who make all of the money.
Can you make money being a travel writer and do people do it?
Absolutely, absolutely happens. Is going to happen for you
statistically speaking, No. But Downer. Well, rather than be down,
or I thought what we should do, honey, for the rest of this program
is tell laid out our people how it worked for me, how it worked for
us. I was gonna say, Just you Well, how it worked for us in the
life of being war for me being a travel writer. And for us being
travel influencer because we have been paid. We have been paid. We
have gotten free stuff. That is true. And we have gotten upgrades.
That is true too. Now we shall go into the hard and fast reality.
So if you wa.
00:04:09
Break at your pencils and start keeping track of this and and
accounting mode. We'll have fun. Mr I recommend you do that is
going to be a depressing story Spoiler alert. So well run through
it. Let's start with their biggest went. Uh, the first biggest when
that we get paid for is working with travel Smith as writer. That's
correct. Travel Smith is or I should say, was a large travel
outfitting company. They sold clothing and bags and other
accessories four the travel lifestyle. Anybody that was on your SNT
Snapchat remembers the fashion show us fried Africa
<laughter>. A fashion shows on Snapchat. Oh my God, I miss
those days. Oh me too. Who is awesomeness? Salmon pants fashion
show. So great. So great. You're exactly right. Answer praise. You
don't bring this out just on Lake Saturday nights edge Saturday
night. I have them about as an act Lot of gestured mightier points.
Hold while I put on my salmon pants and Break out the right said
Fred. I aim to sixty bore my salmon Pat back back back to what
we're talking about, right? So travel Smith, We got very lucky. We
met travel Smith. We met a guy named Matt, who at the time worked
for travel Smith when we were addi conference, which will talk
about carpenters a little bit met him not far into our realization
that we're travel bloggers like within a month. Yeah, with
realizing a asked, realize we were travel bloggers and got an
opportunity to start writing in exchange for goods or Yeah,
originally it was just in exchange for goods. Airwaves money. You
write me.
00:05:50
The a an article that we agree on a topic and I will send you I
think he sent me is they send us five hundred dollars worth of
product. Yes. And we get to choose the project, pick and choose the
product could be anything that we wanted in the catalogue of travel
Smith at the time, clothes, Bags, whatever didn't really matter. So
we did that. I think I did that a couple of times more than a
couple we lose three. Yeah. Maybe so to wear. And the great thing
about working travel Smith as I was working with an amazing editor
on the back in. This wasn't just I turn in an article and they
publish it. This is I turn in an article and the woman who has been
an editor for forty years would then go through and just crush my
words to death, which is awesome. I actually loved that when I am
work with the professional editor, she made my stuff so much better
than it was she did. She did a great job antacid job. So after X
number of times. Doing that, they liked it. We like the products,
Matt said, Hey, let's let's formalized this a little bit more.
Exactly. So the formalized the I'll just lay it on a table because
I'm not under any strange India is that I created twice monthly
content for them, right. And in exchange, I think we got paid a red
notices for an entire year, and I believe the the the payment on
each one of those was around two hundred fifty dollars per article
who plus we received two hundred and fifty dollars. We're monopoly
worth a product. Yes. So what does that Reagan as five hundred
bucks a month plus two hundred and fifty dollars worth of products,
and that relationship went on. They loved it. They loved with that
stuff we were doing. We did some other stuff with. It has to like
Sheila mentioned, the the Snapchat stories that I did because we
also did some tweets and some blog post what we did our own
internal blog post.
00:07:50
Some social media Stephenson video wreck, and the time I got an
Snapchat her was doing a lot of Snapchat he stuff. So part of the
deal was instead of doing things on YouTube will create Snapchat.
She social step forward of this when they come at. So that was a
that was a lot of fund that was going really well. But only one
thing stood in our way. Capitalism. The company sold to another
company, And it sounded like it was going to be great because
there's other company was an even bigger company who could do even
more, and then what they did was close everything down. All of the
articles that we wrote are down, but yet, but now it is strictly
e-commerce all the time. Yes, no longer are they using blogs to
drive traffic to website. So boo-hoo Matt, who was are the way we
got in is gone fired most of the staff. All the editors are guy
turned out bad. That was a fun thing. Lasted a little over a year
of the paid relationship. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Third Hungary signed it
a couple of times. So Yeah, that was the big deal travel Smith. And
There you go. Five hundred dollar 250 and article rain plus free
stuff. It's hard to riven Piper entered a month. Yeah, But we also
you also wrote for fine jewelry. So around the same time that I
met, Matt from travel Smith, I met up with the people that run a
company, an app called find arri and with fine jewelry. It was a it
was a similar situation over there. It was, Hey, we need someone to
write stuff for us. Would you be interested in doing so? And so
they paid me and I don't think I got paid a whole lot. I think I
got paid like maybe maybe this too. I make maybe two hundred what I
think was I don't remember. I got to I got paid to Right now, get
paid two hundred bucks to write an article four find Orie that
wound up on Huffington Post. Yep. So where it was publish was
HuffPost but it was written all about find arrear all four find
Deary but penned by me. So totally a work for higher. I gotta
byline on it, but everything really went back into into fighting
for that. So that was a one-off deal one time Hagan your to
Article. Yes I can. And that was it Because apps as it turns out
also don't have a whole lot of money news must have.
00:10:07
Windows apps don't charge anything to their users, Right? Uh,
the free economy strikes again cited that. Yeah. And then we did
the pre Golah event. All yes, Yes. So recall a Thailand reached out
to me last year. This was partly because we were doing our podcast,
but also because I was connected with the Bank, our podcast, right,
The other show that Greg and I do. They reached out and said, Hey,
we were talking to your partner, Greg host of the bank, our podcast
and long-time Bangkok blogger. Yes, he's coming to our event. Would
you like to come to our event? So I immediately conduct Greg, and I
said, How much of their pain you gave me the number thereby means
Why said wrote back to the recall people? I said, Yes, I will do it
for the exact same animosity that you're paying rig, which was five
thousand Thai baht. <laughter>. It's still not chump change.
Northland Trump figured all five thousand Thai bahts about one
hundred and fifty blocks. Yeah, About one hundred fifty US at the
time. And for that, we had to go to the recall event, which was
very difficult to do is at their rooftop bar in Bangkok, It was in
a fully catered event with free boos and free food who Israel. Ezra
So rough hanging out with the other influencers of Southeast Asia,
and then we you and I did up a podcast about it. We did read
Orange, We will link to in the show notes If you missed an actual,
really didn't do much of a podcast about recall I which is what
they wanted and much more of the podcast about what is shitty job.
It would be to be the guy wearing the recall a box.
00:11:44
Yes. I assume they listen to the shows are they knew they
should have known the kind of content we produce and there And the
Czech cleared even been done done. It is good. What else that I do
an EU actually in this as you, you went to the NB? Yeah.
Conference, Yes. Oh Nordic bloggers experience in B. E two thousand
seventeen they needed a keynote speaker who could talk about with
authority, the travel industry as a travel influencer, which I
guess I am. I guess we are. And also someone who could speak well
and I have done keynote speaking for a fair amount of time right
now. So they flew me to Finland last year time listeners may
remember and I Keno Did their conference And I was compensated or
that they wrote me a check Plus took care of all of the expenses
along the way. And I'll share exactly what I was with you. That was
five hundred US dollars. And you were gone for like two or three
weeks drawing. Drag free trip and five hundred bucks in pocket,
which kind of why we went back to his Estonian executive. I had a
great time there. So if you're keeping score at home, you know what
the number is. I don't know what the number is. A whole lot of what
else? Well, that's about it for paid gig. That was that. Was it for
paid gigs or two and a half years. So now we're on two freebies
things that we got for free Because here's the deal. It doesn't
take a lot for a travel blogger or a travel influence her to get
free things from companies wreck.
00:13:27
It's hard to get paid. It is hard to get past, has any travel
influence our will tell you, especially is just starting out the
first two or three years. It's really, really, really hard to gets
route. There are a lot of people in the travel influencers space
And many of them only want free stuff. Yeah, they just went to
endure in exchange, And we have been guilty of that as we're about
to talk about right now. We have definitely done some free be
tripped some good, some. Great. We're gonna just talk about the big
when Lessard about the big ones. Okay. The biggest when we did was
in China in Chengdu at with the Niccolo hotel system, It was a big
deal. We got a full weeks trip to Changdu which is in this session
one area. Yes, yes. Where such one chicken comes from none other
chicken itself, but would assess One efforts cut for that first
when your at home eating sexual. Chicken, You think that's more
talking about It's really not, But him that Little Red peppers that
are dry. Those red peppers are probably such one peppers. I love
this. And those come from this area of such One China were there
handpicked by Panda's if I understand it. Not. Any how we got to
go. Uh, thank you very much to our friends. Eric, an amber who were
much more serious about this travel blocking stuff of their brand
is with husband in tow will link to that in our show noted,
lessening notes, if your report check on your app.
00:14:55
They needed some people to go with them, Entrepreneurs. Do we
got picked specifically? They wanted photos. Yeah, That wasn't me
bringing along. This is the Sheila party right here. Yep. Eric, an
amber. Really good taking food photos yet. That's what they're
known four but Changdu the Niccolo hotel Wanted pictures of the
Changdu area to show people in the western world that there's more
to travel in China than I think about yet, And they needed a
photograph or long. So they brought their favor photograph her
along Sheila. And I got the tag along with Aston yet, so they they
Niccolo actually paid for the hotel. They paid for our flights, and
they took care of several of our meals. Hear of the on the tour out
to the Let's Sean area to see the giant Buddha. That's right. Yeah.
They paid for our driver to go to the Panda Research sanctuary. And
they just like they really took care of us. Philip and Jonathan
were awesome. Mazey's drew related area. We have that was a it was
a great time. So thanks for them sometimes freebies or out of the
park rain. That was what if somebody says, Hey, can you come to
China and your new travel blogging? You say yes? Do you remember
when we came back, I think of us from the list churn. Uh, Buddha
and our bathtub was overflowing with bubbles And a rose Puddles.
Yes, You've been you made that sound like, Oh my God, My bathrooms
overflowing. Then you could levels are the rose by us, which is why
I do the travel writing photography. Yes. They had set a lovely
romantic bath for us. That was all set up only got back on our
hose. Beautiful, How awesome that if you're traveling to China and
you're going to Changdu state the Nikola hotel, uh, not just
because they said as a preferred, but because it was amazing, It
was an incredibly showed us the right way to do things. So. So
thanks to them an and then we.
00:16:53
We stayed and Co lock at the Marriott Yaohua worked hard to get
a trip to the Mary. I'd that almost got totally buggered because we
were taking my mom there. It was actually part of a 'nother piece
hours writing for travel Smith on multigenerational Travel
International. That fell through because Mom got sick, Right and
cut income. So instead of mom we hooked Now, we returned the favour
we brought our friends, Eric, an amber with husband intoe. We
brought them down with us and got several nights free
accommodations and tours and packages from the lovely people at the
Cadillac Marriott just north of Pook at which is a lovely place.
Yes, lovely. They have the longest pool. Thailand, like three
kilometers, long wise, all the way through the properties really It
was cleared of Regita that on and then we go to conferences. Yeah,
Yeah, we get a lot of our free stuff by attending conferences, Ray
every talking about t- backs Brazilian Rai I am an we've been we
started with them in Spain. We are here in Thailand with them. The
Philippines am. We were in Alabama with them last year. Now the
great thing when you are a travel blogger then goes to T backs just
simply going to D-backs any travel water, go to T Becks you pays
your money, you gets your ticket Now with us. We don't pays monies
and we gets tickets, but that's that's because we're putting in
some time. Yeah, we're we're both speaking, right. So if if you
like, I know Maria understands this on the Convention same. If you
say I will present rail, you get to attend for free. Well, t- backs
you apply, And if you are chosen, then they will take care of your
your editor, a combinations. And for us, they even fly us. They fly
in wherever away. But then also wrapped around that. You have pre-t
backs and post t- back.
00:18:47
Events, which the tourism board and others in that space for
that particular location will take care of trips and accommodation.
So we've done lots with the just just a real good time. So that's a
great time to mingle, meet more people, good industry contacts.
You're not going to make any money there, but hopefully you meet
people who can help you make money, which is where we met Matt from
travel Smith and fine jewelry. So it's definitely a good thing to
attend. It is. And we met some lovely people while being there. So
just the friend benefit is also amazing. Next, We have tours that
we've taken for free and Sylla taste of Thailand errand X peak.
Yeah, Those are either to tour companies here in Bangkok that do
took took tours and food to his around the city and there are
expensive, But occasionally they're looking for travel blogger to
help spread the word. And we have been fortunate enough to take a
couple of trips with them. So so thanks to the people from taste of
Thailand. And also from X peak for letting us letting us travel
That's freebies. Okay. So our next one is about upgrades. Yes.
Because Beyond getting paid and beyond getting things for free,
there's kind of weird thing of the middle to where you can get
upgrades as a travel border. Yes, we can't upwards of we have
gotten. I could think of three that we had it in. This is going to
sound really strange honey, but they also center around Bir I'm
shark, This that these upgrades happened when we walk into a place,
It doesn't take very long to where we're just were kinda like
vegans and were kinda like fitters.
00:20:26
The cabinet will who It takes three seconds before they
actually mentioned the fact that there are a vegan recross Better
yet same thing happens with travel. Bloggers Manet think we might
get free stuff. So we went two bottles of beer, a brand new craft
beer store that opened in Bangkok a couple of years ago. Looking
around the place, Mitchell proprietors that way we happened to be
crappier fans and were a travel. Bloggers may and they sent assault
with free beer. Did I per God? And now we're friends with ruin.
That's right, big brigade, fat Ram, and we've been to their new
spot, the opening of the new spot, leading of free stuff that we
got in that we got admitted at the end in just recently when we
were in Estonia at Pegasus Yes, mention two lovely Oscar are our
waiter there that we were crappier earners and travel bloggers. And
I had been at his establishment a year ago, yes, with the tile in
the tourism board, visit Estonia people. And we got free beer out
of that as well. Yes, Yes. And then also more beer here on our side
of the River in Bangkok, there's a little place called save our
souls, tiny, very, very, very local Thai. But craft beer location
met the proprietor, the first site where their Q casually drop
being major beer nerds and major influential travel bloggers and
queues break in Africa from the back. So I need been back. I hope
Eric, when I turn.
00:21:57
With you right many a time, I don't I don't think I've getting
free stuff since then I need to work on the free is not always
always get free or upgrades or pay, but sometimes you can. That is
our experience as travel influencers making money. Did we attend
any clashes for that? No, but I do have publication credits to my
name, So I know how to write his true there. There is that we have
worked for years to build up our own personal brands, which we have
kind assorted tailored into the travel space. So we we are
attractive to brands Ray who want to utilize us. Yeah, So here's my
my thought on, but we're not we're not getting rich off of it. Odd.
That is correct. You have a full-time job, it do the vast majority
of full time travel. Bloggers that we know are either massively in
debt, living a barely subsistence level life. Even though they are
not portraying that in their photos or their blog post or have some
other have had multiple sources of income. And that's the reality.
Most travel people who rely on the travel space as independent
people travel influence much as Call them have multiple streams.
Well in It's also not always the pretty pretty pictures that you
always see like it's it's a lotta word. He hits it sitting behind
your computer and cursing because you can't get the the images,
Right, or the words are coming or the Internet has crashed again,
Yeah Ito or you can't get a response for somebody, You know, I it's
all of that easy. No, this is not an easy life showed it. But as a
thought.
00:23:45
It is, but it is definitely find so Maria, Hopefully. I think
we answered your question. I did. We did. I think we did this time
how I'll after we just did that because we've been answering way
too many question raised many questions. Hey, if you have got on.
If you have a question for us, it doesn't have to be about travel
riding a give me about life. It can be about what we did in the
stony that we didn't talk about. It can be anything you would like
to know about our lives. Lived abroad, Ask him directly of She last
directly of me, ask us together. Doesn't really matter. It's easy
for you to ask your question to us. Yes, you could send us an
email. Yes, you can tweet to us, but the easiest way to do it is to
go to XIV O . WTF slash call us, and we will play back your voice
mail Ali air, and then respond to you in kind XIV O . W T F slash
call us and ask us your question today. We would love to hear your
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Pretty pleased sugar odd. We will take your support or took four
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that they did other than Mme bungled something crime. But
nonetheless, they are still these sole way that we make money
because all those things we talked about at this show, Sir, no
longer happening. We are no longer being paid by any of those
people to do anything travel-related. So the only travel monies we
get these days or from lovely people like you. So if you have not
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Ruzic is by the way of land. Thanks for listening listener. I an
Ibo Tara ten.
00:25:46
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